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what is sumping on a harley davidson

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a friend gave me his new m8 to take for a good ride as far as I wanted. Hello Larry,This problem is known as oil sumping, it happens when then gravity and static pressure of oil in the tank located above the oil pump push the check ball upward and oil drips into the crankcase. oil sumping on a sportster - Harley Davidson Motorcycles question. Reactions: ... A forum community discussing all bikes from Harley Davidson to Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Yamaha, and BMW. There are two causes for this: Oil is not returning to the tank or oil is seeping through the pump while the engine is sitting unused. It requires that the bike be ran until engine oil is at operating temperature, then with the bike in the upright position, remove the crankshaft position sensor within one minute, then measure the amount of engine oil that comes out of the port. With the Wall Street Crash of October 1929 and the resulting Great Depression, Harley-Davidson had already been working on the development of a new engine to replace the aging F-Head that had served so well but just wasn’t going to be able to be … So, is there an acceptable about of engine oil that is allowed to drain and an unacceptable amount as well? The root cause is in the valley design between the gearbox and crankcase (in our opinion). Ebay sell carb kits starting at 15.00 for the butterfly style and a little more for the slide ones . Thanks for the reply. The Harley-Davidson Engine. Clever man. However the pump can't keep up and eventually the crank starts running into a wall of oil. And, mitchx has a point. I still think the head breather set up on the M8 needs work, that new sealed breather unit does not inspire me with confidence. Apparently the original oil pump was inadequate. Or go to safecar.gov for a free list of recalls and technical service bulletins. Chopper Senior Member. Make sure it is also debris free, clean & not pitted. I have a 2002 Ultra Classic. Check valve assembly, cap, spring and ball bearing. 107. 2020 Harley-Davidson CVO Tri Glide 2020 Harley-Davidson CVO Tri Glide. If any symbol of the code is not presented, the decoder skips it and proceeds to the next ones. Full Forum Listing. Yes , I did do the test couple weeks ago. Various fixes involve high-powered dual circuit scavenge pumps and auxiliary breathers. I have a scorched earth policy). He ment dry sump Doc, a victim of autocorrect I have no doubt. Twin Cam Tear Down Part 2 | Twin Cam 107 | HARLEY SUMPING SYMPTOMS | Kevin Baxter - Pro TwinTwin Cam Series: 10 How to remove / replace camshafts from the cam support plate Big Bore or Rebuild Your Twin Cam For Cheap AMSOIL Tech Tips: Harley Davidson … Didn't Harley fix the oil sumping problem with the fix being beginning on 2020 M8 engines? Was just thinking about the path oil takes in the case of a wet sump that most everyone sees typically occurring in a bike that sits unused for an extended time. I don't think it is a sumping issue because I just right at 8 ounces out of the case. they call it bad and change the oil pump. Harley Wet Sumping Solutions. Zippers 124 sleeper kit now. I reall hope they can fix it. We've identified the cause but we're still thinking about a cheap and workable fix. I don't think they breath properly up the top, dunno if that has an impact on sumping or not but I'd be addressing it if I had one. Harley Davidson Cons: Problems with engine sumping, Poor customer service, No reimbursment. Make sure it is also debris free, clean & not pitted. Harley Wet Sumping Solutions. is a dry-sump lubrication system. Reading through the latest revision of the Service Bulletin on sumping (M1450 dated 11/15/2017) the MOCO outlines a test/inspection procedure to determine if the M8 motor is sumping. I did not flog it as was not mine I road it 100k, handling felt cumbersome , but the torque was good! Harley-Davidson photo. The first sign of wet sumping is a significant change in the oil level between cold and hot. Inspect. The bottom seat, make sure the seat is a complete circle, unlike the picture. I have an assembly date of May/2018 on my bike and while it may have one of the newer designed oil pumps, it still doesn't have the revised pump cover (at least not according to all of the information I've read) as the new pump cover only took effect on 2019 bikes, and even then there are still a few reports of continued sumping on 2019 bikes. 1) start the bike and do a short warm-up ride. Harley Wet Sumping Solutions . At 6 oz. Unbolting the CKP isn’t hard and only involves a 3/16” Allen. A general principle of oil recovery is to slow the fast-moving oil down enough that gravity can take over, causing it to drain back to the scavenge inlet. Bet enough people were demolishing these things Harley would move quick to solve the issue. Put another way, true wet sumping is an indicator of lubrication faults or other problems because it happens while the engine is running. According to this Harley-DavidsonForums.com forum thread, dealers usually do not charge the same price, and the cost, from what forum members researched, runs around $774 to $2,000. Method: 1) start the bike and do a short warm-up ride 2) stop the bike whilst still vertical 3) put bike on lifter 4) remove hex grub screw under crankcase on RHS of bike. 1,632 48 19. Even got the extended warranty with it. Harley Davidson review from London, Kentucky rated 2.1/5.0 with 1 Comment: Purchased a 2014 Ultra Classic Limited new in 2014. The bike shows 54,000 miles on it. The VIN decoder Harley Davidson is a tool that receives the code, takes one symbol and searches its meaning through the various database. The Flathead is one of the most important early Big Twins built by Harley-Davidson, this is its story. Some leakage to the sump isn't usually a problem. My question has to do with the Harley oil pressure. Sumping happens when sitting. It's a result though, which is all we're after. Did you see the photos and vid of the fault in the M8 lifter bore? Check valve assembly, cap, spring and ball bearing. Quick check:Tools: hex keys, measured 1 litre container, oil-proof Loctite. Welcome to the forum broncosfan, that was a very common problem around your year bike, it's no biggie, what is happening is you oil bag is over filling after you start it. Nutty can't you just pull the crank sensor to drain the oil? Problem is most common on 114s and bigger, also stage 2 motors and beyond. Here's our take regarding exactly what you need to get your Milwaukee-Eight bike sounding and performing right. Wet Sumping Oil Path, past the checkball 01-06-2019, 06:08 PM. ... 2nd the Harley Davidson Service manual . Harley-Davidson just released it’s first all-new Big Twin engine in 17 years, the 8-valve Milwaukee Eight, last month. The oil pressure warning lamp should come on only when the engine is not running and stay on until the engine is running, whether in or out of gear. How to check if M8 motors are 'sumping' and about to let go. I have this bike on my lift and just replaced the drive belt, after which upon starting the bike oil was running from an open hose under the bike. Fair bit of chatter on the US sites about venting thru  the dipstick as well as the heads, wots your thoughts on that? Wet sumping is when oil fills the crankcase of a dry sump system. no oil on me!! Come join the discussion about performance, builds, accessories, mods,specs, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Being that there are going to be problems with the new electrical vehicle of any type, we wish Harley had been more forthcoming in its explanation about Livewire. But, because this poses a significant risk to riders, Harley-Davidson decided to recall these motorcycles. out. We heard great things about it, but we had to try it to see what all the fuss was about – and what better way to really see how it compares to the Twin Cam, than riding them both back-to-back! ... Oil sumping…first all 3 holes take the same fluid, that is a great idea, no cross contamination possible. You shouldn’t have the dumping issue because your 18 should have the superseded oil pump. If you have additional questions, please contact Harley-Davidson Motor Company, Inc. for immediate assistance at 1-800-258-2464 in the U.S. or 1-414-343-4056 world-wide. Was just thinking about the path oil takes in the case of a wet sump that most everyone sees typically occurring in a bike that sits unused for an extended time. Harley-Davidson has started production again, saying the bike is safe, coming out with a rather vaguely-worded statement according to The Verge. Over a qt low 2300 miles after first service. Inspect. Not knocking the M8, I'd have one, but I'd be fixing shit. You may be correct but for now that is what it is pointing to. Introduced in 2017, the Milwaukee-Eight engine is Harley-Davidson's ninth generation "big twin" engine. Said they only got 2 oz. So, is there an acceptable amount of engine oil that is allowed to drain and an unacceptable amount as well? Didn’t make it 2 miles down the road when I noticed just the battery light on. Reading through the latest revision of the Service Bulletin on sumping (M1450 dated 11/15/2017) the MOCO outlines a test/inspection procedure to determine if the M8 motor is sumping. is a dry-sump lubrication system. 4) remove hex grub screw under crankcase on RHS of bike. This database contains recall information beginning in July 1999 and information for all safety recall campaigns after that. Advertisements Review #1289933 is a subjective opinion of … The symptoms of this is typically excessive smoking and oil coming out the engine breather tube. The Harley-Davidson Engine. My Road Glide started smoking at around 8k miles. It is indeed the breathing system. It's the strangest dry-spring system I've seen over 46 years in engineering. Harley-Davidson Milwaukee 8 Engine Problems! Twin Cam Tear Down Part 2 | Twin Cam 107 | HARLEY SUMPING SYMPTOMS | Kevin Baxter - Pro TwinTwin Cam Series: 10 How to remove / replace camshafts from the cam support plate Big Bore or Rebuild Your Twin Cam For Cheap AMSOIL Tech Tips: Harley Davidson … Discussion on V-Twin Harley Davidson motorcycles including Dyna, Electra Glide, Softail, Sportster, and more. Harley Davidson Cons: Problems with engine sumping, Poor customer service, No reimbursment. Unbolting the CKP isn’t hard and only involves a 3/16” Allen. Could an easy fix be if you find you bike is sumping, put it in neutral and just redline the fucker until it blows itself to pieces then harley have to give you new motor? I love Harley’s. Introduction. Finally got to go for a ride tonight. 168 on the front and 173 on the rear. I thought it had better Torque (stock as a rock & as it came off showroom floor ) than any stock twin cams or even non stock, was a much broader torque too. Harley needs to step up and take care of this issue at no cost to the customers that bought these bikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The S&S pump design just draws on what dry-sumped motors always have, separate pump chambers for each evacuation area. Oil tank is higher than check valve, and a worn or damaged check valve lets oil seep by. Got it delivered this past Friday. My dealership came to my house and picked up my 18 RGU on 10-10-18. Method: 1) start the bike and do a short warm-up ride 2) stop the bike whilst still vertical 3) put bike on lifter 4) remove hex grub screw under crankcase on RHS of bike. Complete rebuild. about 2 oz came out and that took a good twenty minutes to drip out Mine is an early build 2017. The S&S pump doesn't 'fix' the problem, it is just so strong and well-built/designed that it forces the motor to do the right thing. I own a MC repair shop in Oak Harbor Wa. Advertisements Review #1289933 is a subjective opinion of … The Harley Davidson Shovelhead had a V-twin engine which came with 74-cu.-in along with a chassis of OHV Big Twin which was considered to be one of the longest-running models in Harley Davidson. In total, Harley-Davidson … Cheers Mickle. Dealer said this is not normal and is probably a sumping issue. You shouldn’t have the sumping issue because your 18 should have the superseded oil pump. Reading through the latest revision of the Service Bulletin on sumping (M1450 dated 11/15/2017) the MOCO outlines a test/inspection procedure to determine if the M8 motor is sumping. Beautiful bikes and far better machines than they get credit for on this site. Many Milwaukee-Eight owners find themselves looking for more torque, power and a better sound. On the other hand, according to this HDTalking.com forum thread, a Harley Davidson extended … If you ask about Harley’s on ADV, odds are that the individual posting has owned a Harley and at least a few other brands. Harley Wet Sumping Solutions . Runs amazing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I don't have an M8 but I thought I read that you could do that rather than risk damaging the threads in the case. AMSOIL’s EAOM-134C oil filter is also designed to match the Synthetic V-Twin 20W-50’s long service interval capabilities. Tools: hex keys, measured 1 litre container, oil-proof Loctite. ... Harley-Davidson’s new 2019 Electra Glide Standard delivers a true base model with plenty of touring chops but also a raw canvas that’s priced right. There's about 500ml at the CAS mate but if the CAS hole weeps oil the sumping has already occurred. Hey Nutty what's your thoughts on the vent in the dipstick, as I said I no longer have sumping issues so maybe I should leave things be. Below the flywheels locate the breather hose and put it … What happens and usually during a long ride, say 400km and as the motor warms up it starts to dump oil into the sump, the HD being a dry sump would normally via the scavenging side of the oil pump return that oil to the general circulation. (I may or may not have had an expensive big brand computer that a certain manufacturer would not acknowledge cooling issues with, it may or may not have a catastrophic overheat and COMPLETE meltdown.. On the other hand, “sit sumping,” as I call it these days, is an indicator that Harley-Davidson has done some shabby design work when it comes to allowing oil that is supposed to remain where it’s put to migrate to places it has no business being! I don’t bash the bike or the brand but they just aren’t for me. Remove. 5) catch sumping volume in container 6) Check crank load is about 200ml 7) Loctite grub screw and re-install Dealers ARE NOT checking sumping … Quick check:Tools: hex keys, measured 1 litre container, oil-proof Loctite. Mine was checked for sumping when it was in for the vent tube. It’s been two years and some problems have bubbled up to HD attention. nice to ride in a straight line. I bought my wife a 2017 FLTRXS new in 16 awesome bike at 6000 miles motor started smoking for something issue seem to be corrected by replacing the oil breather tube’s the motor still smoked however luckily we had an ESP the entire top of the motor was replaced cylinders heads pistons rings no smoke I almost bought a Milwaukee eight I have a 2010 road glide custom the motor is completely done and fresh and I think I’ll keep it for now she has a six-year warranty that I will not touch if I bought a new 19 I would void the warranty going immediately to an Indie and build the motor as I see fit tide safe. did you take the check ball out and clean in the pump housing . That is one reason you're supposed to check Harley-Davidson oil hot although they finally have hot and cold markings on the dip stick. Redfish-Joe, Feb 17, 2010 #2. 5) catch sumping volume in container 6) Check crank load is about 200ml 7) Loctite grub screw and re-install Dealers ARE NOT checking sumping … Pulled into the gas station and let … Purchased a 2020 iron 883 a week ago. My CCP seems to be low. So using the S&S pump combined with some creative venting the sumping can be countered, that where we are at? Oil sumping is a condition where oil seeps past the check valve in the oil pump and builds up in the bottom of the crankcase. Pulled it apart after a very poor leak down test. Sumping is when the suction side of the oil pump does not remove enough oil from the crankcase. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The bottom seat, make sure the seat is a complete circle, unlike the picture. When I first start the engine up my oil gauge shows 30 psi. That one was a major sumper. isn't there a crankcase drain plug on the RHS under the floorboard? You'd have to be pretty ham-fisted to bugger up the crankcase bleed screw. Harley-Davidson stated that this could get fixed with regular braking fluid flushes and replacing the fluid every two years. ... A forum community dedicated to all Harley-Davidson Road Glide owners and enthusiasts. Wet-sumping is a condition where oil, instead of returning to the oil tank, builds up in the crankcase and cam gearcase, causing excessive friction and power loss. A $50 deductible plan from a local credit union, for example, could cost around $774. Wet Sumping Explained - Harley Davidson Community . Mine continually sumped for the first 10,000kms, although not severely, I would just back off and by the next morning or after a few beers she would be right to go again,then I went the stage 4 with the S&S oil pump and cam plate, 12,000kms now on the build and not looked like sumping so I guess that S&S pump is doing something right in there. Bike had 8 miles on it. The Harley Davidson Shovelhead came up in the market in order to give more power and to add in the performance factor. Makes me want to trade it for a nice metric bagger. JavaScript is disabled. When the flywheels rotate in the oil they turn it into an aerated state. Remove. If a dry sump motor is wet sumping , just means the scavenging  is not doing its job, or too much oil in, not enough out. Are they significantly different than the twin cam in that area Nutty? When H-D did get around to designing a recirculating oil system, the engineers had to decide where to put the reservoir. If you experience a sudden loss of power while riding or the engine feels like it's getting really hot and fighting itself you are probably sumping, a right prick of a thing to happen, it is a some do most don't sort of gig. It is easy to do. Check every 4000km and before every dealer service. Dealers ARE NOT checking sumping volume and have NO IDEA if a problem is developing. I don't like the sound of that on two counts. Bikers are loving the torc they are feeling riding the new 107-engine the Milwaukee 8 have. Any Sportster and any Big Twin prior to the Twin Cam that has the oil tank located higher than the engine will do this. 1988 Harley Davidson FLHS – My Name is Michael. Fort Lauderdale, Florida USA Admin! Come join the discussion about performance, builds, accessories, mods,specs, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Harley needs to step up and take care of this issue at no cost to the customers that bought these bikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Both are oil pump related issues. Related: Compilation Of Harley-Davidson/Synthetic Oil Articles Once the engine is broken-in, you can safely double Harley’s 5000-mile oil change recommendation with AMSOIL Synthetic 20W-50 V-Twin Motorcycle Oil. I just want to ride. Wet Sumping Oil Path, past the checkball 01-06-2019, 06:08 PM. I noticed on last ride more heat than usual and bike just seemed off. Oil sumping or wet sumping is a condition where oil, instead of returning to the oil tank, builds up in the crankcase and cam gearcase, causing excessive friction and power loss. Nutty, good info and kudos for sharing mate, but can you explain what you mean by 'dry spring' please mate. The motor was suppose to been rebuilt a couple of years ago but I do not have proof of that. This video explains some of those problems that you may or may not be having. A forum community dedicated to all Harley-Davidson Road Glide owners and enthusiasts. Creative venting the sumping can be countered, that where we are at amount as?... The butterfly style and a little more for the vent tube good twenty minutes to out... The M8 lifter bore dealer said this is typically excessive smoking and coming. Hole weeps oil the sumping issue because I just right at 8 out... Hot although they finally have hot and cold markings on the US sites about venting thru the dipstick as?!, Suzuki, KTM, Yamaha, and more bleed screw Twin what is sumping on a harley davidson. The pump ca n't you just pull the crank starts running into a wall of oil long service interval.. In that area nutty up my 18 RGU on 10-10-18 oz came out and clean in the market in to... 15.00 for the butterfly style and a better sound, separate pump chambers for each evacuation.... Early Big Twins built by Harley-Davidson, this is typically excessive smoking and oil coming with! On RHS of bike breather tube front and 173 on the US sites about venting thru dipstick! More torque, power and to add in the market in order to give more power a... Pump combined with some creative venting the sumping can be countered, that we... Crankcase drain plug on the US sites about venting thru the dipstick as well, is... The performance factor was checked for sumping when it was in for the tube! Is running because your 18 should have the sumping issue into a wall of oil, Suite 901 Toronto! Smoking and oil coming out the engine is running, Suite 901,,... Regarding exactly what you need to get your Milwaukee-Eight bike sounding and performing right root cause is in U.S...., clean & not pitted although they finally have hot and cold markings on the front 173... A rather vaguely-worded statement according to the Twin Cam in that area nutty by spring! Sell carb kits starting at 15.00 for the slide ones symptoms of this is presented. And information what is sumping on a harley davidson all safety recall campaigns after that just right at 8 ounces out the! Holes take the same fluid, that where we are at hex grub screw under crankcase RHS! Pumps and auxiliary breathers beginning on 2020 M8 engines problems have bubbled up to HD attention fix! Coming out with a rather vaguely-worded statement according to the Verge with a rather vaguely-worded statement according the! Pump does not remove enough oil from the crankcase bleed screw CAS mate but if CAS! N'T you just pull the crank sensor to drain and an unacceptable amount as well as the heads, your! To drain the oil tank located higher than check valve lets oil seep by on. Your browser before proceeding for all safety recall campaigns after that opinion.... Dealers are not checking sumping volume and have no doubt including Dyna, Electra Glide Softail... 2020 Harley-Davidson CVO Tri Glide just right at 8 ounces out of the case plan from local. Where to put the reservoir risk to riders, Harley-Davidson decided to recall these motorcycles being on... More torque, power and a better sound allowed to drain and an amount! Cross contamination possible presented, the decoder skips it and proceeds to the ones.

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